Author Topic: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?  (Read 7867 times)

Offline azarimy

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2008, 10:44:57 AM »
well, you're making me feel like an outsider.

that's only bcoz yuri's bringing his points from the wrong perspective.


Quote
From my understanding... UTM KL cannot really function without UTM skudai. We're ONE school and just that the location and graduation level is different. We ARE students of UTM aren't we?? we're just taking UTM's diploma programe, THUS we're located here in KL...

same university, different faculty, different school.

yes, we are still UTM. in spirit we're still the same. read my previous reply.

the KL diploma is a standalone programme. it's not an integration programme. means UTM KL students does not depend on what goes on in skudai in order to proceed with their education. i've explained this alot of time before.

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I'm not sure if our portfolios and all do go thru skudai, but from what i understand, the modules have already went thru the Skudai authorities... why? cos we're their students too.... I'm not 100% sure who issues the certs, but i'm sure my cert will say Diploma from Universiti Teknologi Malaysia. and if i'm not mistaken, our Convo is definately in skudai...

if we're the same school, diploma school of architecture must be under fakulti alam bina, not kolej sains & teknologi. ofcourse u're still UTM students and would be UTM graduates, but u must understand what a university is, dear. a university is a collection of independent schools. architecture school does not need to know what engineering or education faculties are doing to function. even if LAN takes back accreditation from computer science school, it wont affect us. the same with UTM KL. it exists independently.


Quote
Personally, my own concern is that.......
I know i can apply to go into other uni or even overseas to study. but the proplem with the differnt programe is that.... we might spend one whole EXTRA year (if not MORE) to RE-study all the similar stuff that we've already learnt in this programe... as compared to going into 3rd yr in skudai where the programe is a continuation of ours, wouldn't that be better?

all diploma programmes MUST go through 2nd year degree for part 1. accept it.

UTM skudai is lenient enough to allow the UTM diploma graduates from KL into 3rd year. other diploma students from any other schools in malaysia (LKW, taylor's, politeknik, L&G, UCSI, Alfa etc) will go into 2nd year, NOT 3rd year.

and bottom line is, if we take all of u, where would we put u? there's no one to teach an extra 30 students this year.
what gets us into trouble is not what we dont know. it's what we know for sure that just ain't so - mark twain

Awan_Larat

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2008, 05:47:35 PM »
Hpmmhhh...kan senang ngkao call je Dr. Syed. That's the whole point of me starting this query. Now we have this facts from Dr. Syed  in written form by you Aza.

Thanks...
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 05:51:45 PM by Awan_Larat »

Awan_Larat

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2008, 06:12:28 PM »
Try to be in our shoes Aza (students & student lecturers), and maybe you would understand more. Situasi nih dah kerap sangat berlaku. 

Most of the comments of me making the rift comes from 'outsiders' not the students themselves. While on many occasions Skudai is not treating us a ONE school. Perspektif macam mane lagi aku nak huraikan? Where is SKUDAI (especially the students) in KL? Where is the TOP people in this relationship?

I don't colour their (KL) angst to JB.  >:(

Kalau antara kita (seniors) nih duk argue memanjang...mane student2 skudai? They don't care? Don't you find that funny?
 
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 06:15:51 PM by Awan_Larat »

Offline azarimy

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2008, 06:49:27 PM »
read my posts carefully from top to bottom. which part does anything that i've said contradicts dr syed's statement? why can u just accept that i'm fully capable in exercising my knowledge in this matter?

i'm literally astounded when u first made comment that i'm not the person to say anything about this. i'm replying in this thread in my capacity as a UTM lecturer who has involved in coming up the initial programme. i'm well aware of the policies involved. i'm not writing as a senior or an ex-student, my dear yuri, but in my full capacity as member of the architecture deparment.

i understand completely the situation of UTM KL. we're not toying with people's lives/futures here. what pisses me off is that although we've made it clear during the formation of the school, somehow somebody managed to convince the students the wrong things. that somebody promised the wrong things to the students, and now u're putting the blame on us.

meaning:

somebody made a promise that 100% of the students will get through degree after 3rd year. who made such promise? we surely didnt. care to venture a guess?

and stop making excuses yuri. it's quite clear to all of us that u're trying to be the champion of the students. nothing wrong with that, but quoting dr. syed: u shouldnt put sentiments over the primary issues. there's the proper channel to voice such a thing, and we highly doubt u've used it at all, and straight away blasting around here. dr. liza was there and she accepted the terms in the meeting. why dont u ask her FIRST?

anyways,

dr syed have read this thread, and have provided a possible solution for the students. they can collectively write an appeal letter to the VC of DVC (academic) asking to reconsider the intake so that more UTM KL can be taken directly to UTM degree in skudai. if the VC agrees, a directive will be issued, and skudai school will use this chance to increase the number of lecturers (which we currently need, but dont have the allocation to).




and stop making rift. seriously!
what gets us into trouble is not what we dont know. it's what we know for sure that just ain't so - mark twain

Offline Yuki_Onna

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2008, 08:21:48 PM »
thanks dr syed... thanks aza...
"Seeing is not believing; believing IS seeing..."

\(^-^)/ Joyce
Yuki_Onna

Awan_Larat

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2008, 08:29:59 PM »
Sheeeh...the thing about us asians that always see 'teguran' as a point of making 'rift's...Don't you think it is better than keeping quiet over every single issue.

Seriously takde siapa nak bergaduh. On many occasions I seriously wished SKUDAI would come to KL to see the wonderful things the student did here(you too, Aza). But these kids are left unappreciated for the hard-duration of the program. Especially knowing they are going into the mother program in Johor. Not all of the are from families that can afford going oversees.

The news hit them hard. Really hard.   
Our studio is small, we are very close.

Quote
somebody made a promise that 100% of the students will get through degree after 3rd year. who made such promise? we surely didnt. care to venture a guess?

Not us. Period. Nor did i ever. Ask the students themselves. If there is someone else you had in mine. Who?
 
If the channel is wrong, forgive me.

Therefore.
Thanks for the re-consideration.  ;)6   

 
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 10:07:23 PM by Awan_Larat »

Offline scid

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2008, 12:05:32 AM »
me too not quite get it why onli ten..but as u know now the degree program had been changes becoz of too many people doing thesis..even now wif my group(who extend) plus the second stage up to 107 peeps...next year wif 28 of us will be added wif 97-98 peeps who doing urban now...still dun get it why jabatan give way too many students per batch when the lecturer is few incharge...but as u would know I'm not the jabatan...we should wait for those in jabatan to answer this...even in thesis there had been a new workbase called x-factor bcoz of too many students in thesis...how would it be next semester :whistle:
SMACK ME PLEASE!!!

Offline Yuki_Onna

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2008, 06:33:18 AM »
haih.... what to do... just apply ape ape jer school or architecture.. sape yg accept i pg jer...


should i try to study overseas?? hmmm.....
"Seeing is not believing; believing IS seeing..."

\(^-^)/ Joyce
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Offline azarimy

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2008, 09:17:50 AM »
Quote
The rules keep-on changing, first it was all the DIPLOMA Students, then only 3.0 above and suddenly 10students-with interview!!! Frankly, we were never very clear of what are the standards of going in SKUDAI.

dear yuri, this is what u wrote in page 1. so if u could tell use who told u that it was all the DIPLOMA Students, we could get on to the bottom of the issue here. we're currently looking into this matter of misinformation very seriously, i believe dr. syed's about to issue a formal inquest.

Quote from: scid
me too not quite get it why onli ten..but as u know now the degree program had been changes becoz of too many people doing thesis..even now wif my group(who extend) plus the second stage up to 107 peeps...next year wif 28 of us will be added wif 97-98 peeps who doing urban now...still dun get it why jabatan give way too many students per batch when the lecturer is few incharge...but as u would know I'm not the jabatan...we should wait for those in jabatan to answer this...even in thesis there had been a new workbase called x-factor bcoz of too many students in thesis...how would it be next semester whistle

u got it the other way around. the sudden bloating in thesis group this year is the inevitable outcome of the change in the single degree system. batch frenzy is a 5 year group, while inverto is a 6 year group. since inverto starts off a year early than frenzy, it is inevitable that frenzy and inverto will converge at the final year.

it is a calculated risk that the department is willing to take, as it only happens once. the latter batches will not go through the big thesis group again, unless everybody in these two batches decide to fail and repeat their theses. the department have accommodated the bloating with additional tutors, external examiners and part-time lecturers. we're still maintaining the 1:15 tutor-student ratio.

i suggest u to discuss this matter with the thesis coordinator. this have been mentioned very early on when frenzy started 1st year. ofcourse, that's about 4 years ago and not everybody might remember. but i was there when cik jak and zatur explained the course structure during the camping trip on that beach (which i cant remember).

Quote from: yuki
haih.... what to do... just apply ape ape jer school or architecture.. sape yg accept i pg jer...

should i try to study overseas?? hmmm.....

perhaps u should. UTM's diploma is widely recognized, although u will start at 2nd year for part 1. UTM is the only place that allows u to go straight to 3rd year automatically. but ofcourse, there have been several students from previous integrasi group that managed to land straight to 3rd year part 1, but they're all 3.50cgpa and above. if u do have 3.50cgpa and above by the time u graduate, u should try and appeal for more credit transfers.

what gets us into trouble is not what we dont know. it's what we know for sure that just ain't so - mark twain

Offline scid

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2008, 12:40:57 PM »
Yup maybe this will be the first n the last but haiyyaaaa veli2 pening ar :whistle: even not all in inverto sambung their degree here...I know one of them now taking internal design in Uitm..few of them are working :thumbs: I hope I can work soon...maybe work b4 getting into degree is not so bad..atleast you got a lots of exp b4 getting in degree..matured I mean...
SMACK ME PLEASE!!!

Offline azarimy

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2008, 07:24:15 PM »
working after diploma is actually highly recommended. it allows u to gain a different perspective in practice, and hopefully in future learning as well. remember that architecture learning only really begins when u start practicing. what u learn for 5-6 years in architecture school is to form a firm base where u could build ur future knowledge on.

just be sure u dont spend too long in practice if u plan in coming back for ur degree.
what gets us into trouble is not what we dont know. it's what we know for sure that just ain't so - mark twain

Awan_Larat

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2008, 11:35:46 PM »
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dear yuri, this is what u wrote in page 1. so if u could tell use who told u that it was all the DIPLOMA Students, we could get on to the bottom of the issue here. we're currently looking into this matter of misinformation very seriously, i believe dr. syed's about to issue a formal inquest.

Glad that got Skudai's attention, i believe KL is also writing a formal inquest on this situation. It was the prerogative when the DIPLOMA school started. (Prerogative always changes in the Malaysian system)

But the matter is not about how many that got in, it is HOW do you get it!. It was the misinformation of standards and rule. Which was not made clear to those who learn. During our time, it was very clear, 3.0 above and an excellent DESIGN Portfolio. And it was 30 student to Degree. That was the ultimatum since the first year we got in.

It has been three years that KL existed but the info about the intake to Skudai was not made up until the final semester (now) Skudai drop the BOMB. Who actually decide?

To our understanding,
It was Skudai's (Jabatan) to give the answers. Not VCA, Dean or Akademik UTM. If i am wrong do correct me. 

Quote
the sudden bloating in thesis group this year is the inevitable outcome of the change in the single degree system. batch frenzy is a 5 year group, while inverto is a 6 year group. since inverto starts off a year early than frenzy, it is inevitable that frenzy and inverto will converge at the final year.

The bloating does not happen only at thesis, but also Urban and Practical Training (even though done during the break but it is a logistical nightmare). It does concern how quality would affect the new graduates with this sudden bloating in the final year. I remember 40 person for thesis in 2001 was worrisome. Can't imagine a 100 doing thesis when you don't have enough lecturers to give adequet attention to the students. The percentage of failing is also high, unless the Jabatan would lower the bar just to fill University standards or avoid problems from the Senat because of failures.

Suddenly, if KL would grow into an independent school might be a great idea and solution to SKUDAI's bloating problems. How can the bloating go away as that is the fate of students doing straight their degree? 

But can a University have two independent schools? and the fact you wrote (Aza) does raise some concerns even to the academic department here. The idea itself might seem blasphemy.   
 
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 12:30:34 AM by Awan_Larat »

Offline azarimy

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2008, 10:46:24 AM »
Glad that got Skudai's attention, i believe KL is also writing a formal inquest on this situation. It was the prerogative when the DIPLOMA school started. (Prerogative always changes in the Malaysian system)

But the matter is not about how many that got in, it is HOW do you get it!. It was the misinformation of standards and rule. Which was not made clear to those who learn. During our time, it was very clear, 3.0 above and an excellent DESIGN Portfolio. And it was 30 student to Degree. That was the ultimatum since the first year we got in.

It has been three years that KL existed but the info about the intake to Skudai was not made up until the final semester (now) Skudai drop the BOMB. Who actually decide?

To our understanding,
It was Skudai's (Jabatan) to give the answers. Not VCA, Dean or Akademik UTM. If i am wrong do correct me. 

i think i've mentioned this 3 times already in this very thread. what we (u and me) went through is integrasi system. we dont need to apply through UPU to get into 4th year. all we need was to give our name to the department, and they'll sort who gets in and who doesnt.

the current independent diploma school that we have right now is not the integrasi system. to apply into degree in skudai, they would still need to apply through UPU. there's no direct intake. it was very clear on day one. it means, before the meeting last time, the deal was the students (diploma KL) will compete with other diploma holders with no exclusivity. that's what dr. liza came to skudai to strike a new, better deal.

u're implying that skudai is to blame for all this cock-ups. u must understand that the objective of KL school is to be an independent school, not an integration like it once was. there was no bombs dropped. it was set like that ever since the KL school started. like i said, who misinformed the students in KL? it certainly not us, bcoz we're well aware of the deal with the diploma students.

Quote
The bloating does not happen only at thesis, but also Urban and Practical Training (even though done during the break but it is a logistical nightmare). It does concern how quality would affect the new graduates with this sudden bloating in the final year. I remember 40 person for thesis in 2001 was worrisome. Can't imagine a 100 doing thesis when you don't have enough lecturers to give adequet attention to the students. The percentage of failing is also high, unless the Jabatan would lower the bar just to fill University standards or avoid problems from the Senat because of failures.

Suddenly, if KL would grow into an independent school might be a great idea and solution to SKUDAI's bloating problems. How can the bloating go away as that is the fate of students doing straight their degree? 

i think u missed my points (again). the bloating only occurs once, and this is the only year where it will ever happen. we've already provided enough teaching staff to accommodate this issue. and the jabatan will never lower the bar.

Quote
But can a University have two independent schools? and the fact you wrote (Aza) does raise some concerns even to the academic department here. The idea itself might seem blasphemy.   

there's no problem with a university having two independent schools. UiTM has two schools. no problem there. what sort of concerns are u talking about? why is it blasphemy?
what gets us into trouble is not what we dont know. it's what we know for sure that just ain't so - mark twain

Awan_Larat

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2008, 05:35:05 AM »
You've been saying three times already about us being an INDEPENDENT School but none in WRITING.

Therefore refering to this prerogative you've said, please send a FORMAL letter sign by the Head Department of Architecture from Skudai saying that KL is an INDEPENDENT School. Untill then, it is only your words against us.

If we are an INDEPENDENT School at the beggining where is SIGN letter? Where is the confirmation to the VCA?
 

« Last Edit: January 29, 2008, 05:39:23 AM by Awan_Larat »

Offline azarimy

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2008, 05:46:56 AM »
u dont need my word, coz u can get it from dr. liza or ur dean himself. these are people directly accessible to u, yuri. UTM KL is an independent school from the beginning, why suddenly u need somebody to tell u that it truely is? shall i write a letter that says UTM KL is located in KL as well? :D
what gets us into trouble is not what we dont know. it's what we know for sure that just ain't so - mark twain

Awan_Larat

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2008, 06:16:59 AM »
Thats the problem...the people directly accessible to me (and i said us meaning myself, Dr. Bashri & Dr. Haliza) did not received any info stating KL is an INDEPENDENT School.

Stating KL as an INDEPENDENT School must come from Jabatan Senibina SKUDAI, if you say three times proudly/confidently.

So please be clear, send us a letter stating WE ARE AN INDEPENDENT SCHOOL, and i won't bother you anymore with silly questions of where do we belong...and 'being the shadow of SKUDAI'.
 
« Last Edit: January 29, 2008, 07:40:23 PM by Awan_Larat »

Offline Yuki_Onna

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2008, 09:02:08 AM »
ar..... so..... where else to go besides utm... what's the second best option do we have? i've asked the same quesion in the help section in hope to get some more response
"Seeing is not believing; believing IS seeing..."

\(^-^)/ Joyce
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Offline azarimy

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2008, 03:12:34 PM »
Thats the problem...the people directly accessible to me (and i said us meaning myself, Dr. Bashri & Dr. Haliza) did not received any info stating KL is an INDEPENDENT School.

Stating KL as an INDEPENDENT School must come from Jabatan Senibina SKUDAI, if you say three times proudly/confidently.

So please be clear, send us a letter stating WE ARE AN INDEPENDENT SCHOOL, and i won't bother you anymore with silly questions of where do we belong...and 'being the shadow of SKUDAI'.
 

i've given all the characteristics of an independent school to u. all u need to do is counter all those arguments. UTM KL is not a partner or twinning or integration programme with UTM skudai. that leaves only one thing: independent school! are u daft enough not to understand that? u want to make a new category for u? and how do u think i'm supposed to write a letter from sheffield?

ah, i know. since i couldnt produce such letter from sheffield, it means i'm wrong, and u win. dirty little bugger.

yuri, what would it achieve with a "letter of independence"? even if there isnt such letter, UTM KL will still function as an independent school. UTM skudai does not meddle with how KL runs its school. asking that letter is exactly asking for conformation that UTM KL is in KL! that was the purpose why i put that statement earlier. u dont need proof that UTM KL is in KL, bcoz all the characteristics say its not anywhere else.

do u want me to relist the entire characteristics of an independent school again?

sigh...
what gets us into trouble is not what we dont know. it's what we know for sure that just ain't so - mark twain

Awan_Larat

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2008, 07:38:38 PM »
Quote
i've given all the characteristics of an independent school to u. all u need to do is counter all those arguments. UTM KL is not a partner or twinning or integration programme with UTM skudai. that leaves only one thing: independent school! are u daft enough not to understand that? u want to make a new category for u? and how do u think i'm supposed to write a letter from sheffield?

ah, i know. since i couldnt produce such letter from sheffield, it means i'm wrong, and u win. dirty little bugger.

Aza...jgnlah mcm nih...this is not about who wins in an argument. You have a role in Tanggam. You are the voice of SKUDAI even though you are on the other side of earth. OK yes, KL is independent school. I KNOW, and profoundly said you are right!. Why the need to argue?. I have to make you wrote 3 times......, just to prove my point that words are always against practice. Especially without FORMAL WRITING

What are your words without FORMAL WRITING?. And of course you are not the one who writes the letter...sheehh...bro..words are not enough to conclude this argument to a resolution. You live in the UK. Kat sane diorang cakap2 je? atau pun do their business in FORMAL writing? I hope you see the problem in a much bigger context.

Quote
do u want me to re-list the entire characteristics of an independent school again?

Please do that, but make sure it comes from SKUDAI sign by Head of Architecture School. And do conclude at the end of the letter. "I therefore conclude the Program Diploma Senibina Kolej Sains Teknologi is an INDEPENDENT PROGRAM"


Early from beginning the argument since 2 years i taught in KL it would all finally come to this conclusion.
 
If you want to meddle...meddle, come and visit us every semester. If we are INDEPENDENT, formally informed Pejabat Akademik, KST and UTM-KL.

But the problem was, neither of these circumstances are done by SKUDAI.

Action speaks louder than words.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2008, 08:00:54 PM by Awan_Larat »

Offline azarimy

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Re: Why only MAX 10 person to UTM Skudai?
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2008, 08:28:14 AM »
Aza...jgnlah mcm nih...this is not about who wins in an argument. You have a role in Tanggam. You are the voice of SKUDAI even though you are on the other side of earth. OK yes, KL is independent school. I KNOW, and profoundly said you are right!. Why the need to argue?. I have to make you wrote 3 times......, just to prove my point that words are always against practice. Especially without FORMAL WRITING

What are your words without FORMAL WRITING?. And of course you are not the one who writes the letter...sheehh...bro..words are not enough to conclude this argument to a resolution. You live in the UK. Kat sane diorang cakap2 je? atau pun do their business in FORMAL writing? I hope you see the problem in a much bigger context.

Please do that, but make sure it comes from SKUDAI sign by Head of Architecture School. And do conclude at the end of the letter. "I therefore conclude the Program Diploma Senibina Kolej Sains Teknologi is an INDEPENDENT PROGRAM"




Action speaks louder than words.


the only words against practice is ur words, yuri.

u're saying that UTM KL is not an independent school. but yet, that's why KL is practicing right now, isnt it? the characteristics that i've mentioned are stuff that KL is doing, not saying. u wanna talk about action is louder than words, there's my argument. u guys are DOING the independent way, which is great! by all means, be independent. but u're keep saying it's not. what's the proof, yuri? where's ur proof that UTM KL is not an independent school?

skudai has not meddled in any of the dealings in KL, just as we never meddle in how UM or UiTM ran their schools. but we do collaborate. and collaboration is not meddling!

Quote
Early from beginning the argument since 2 years i taught in KL it would all finally come to this conclusion.
 
If you want to meddle...meddle, come and visit us every semester. If we are INDEPENDENT, formally informed Pejabat Akademik, KST and UTM-KL.

But the problem was, neither of these circumstances are done by SKUDAI.

here's the problem - u were not there when KL started. but i was. so were the rest of the department including PM bashri, shuhana and dr. liza. it's a clear cut case, UTM KL is an independent school. all the criteria of an independent school are there. action speaks louder than words, yuri. i dont even have to speak it, UTM KL is already practicing an independent school!

and skudai does not have to write a formal letter to inform KL school that they're independent. why? because that's meddling! u want us to meddle in KL's business?

so this discussion can easily be concluded by ur own suggestion:

"I therefore conclude the Program Diploma Senibina Kolej Sains Teknologi is an INDEPENDENT PROGRAM"

see? it's not program diploma senibina fakulti alam bina. it's KST.

action speaks louder than words. i cant stress this enough.
what gets us into trouble is not what we dont know. it's what we know for sure that just ain't so - mark twain