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The Academic Community => UTM KL => Topic started by: hajah_bubble on February 14, 2007, 11:26:11 PM

Title: project 3...community center
Post by: hajah_bubble on February 14, 2007, 11:26:11 PM
mari berbincang
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: pyan on February 16, 2007, 02:14:57 PM
aku benci thread camni.
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Awan_Larat on February 16, 2007, 05:49:44 PM
aku pun sama :mad:...kalau nak cakap mengarut mcm nih pergi le thread community...then again Pyan, you can't get perfection in one whole batch...rasa nak delete tapi aku tak nak curb 'freedom of expression' even though how idiotic it may be, mesti ada 'something' dalam otak. Marah dan pancung jelah...

Sigh...nih budak2 JB le nih...hehe
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: segumpal_tanah on February 16, 2007, 09:44:55 PM
Quote
Sigh...nih budak2 JB le nih...hehe

Don't even go there, brader!
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Awan_Larat on February 16, 2007, 09:46:10 PM
hahahaha....cucuk je...like me of the 'Kelantanese' nature.....no matter how i hate statements of marginalization..i can't seem to run from it. But not realizing it is far more worst.
Title: Re: project 3- Community Center At Jalan Kapitan Kling, Penang
Post by: Awan_Larat on February 21, 2007, 05:09:43 PM
So...mari kita mulakan sekali-lagi, and since i'm going to Langkawi-might as well leave you with the UNOFFICIAL BREIF.

Project 3- Kapitan Kling Community Center

In this Project, you are required to design a Community Center, specifically for the area of Kapitan Kling. The Community Center must be based on issues that you derived upon your observation and our site visit. 
These are your basic spaces needed for the design of your Community Center. All students must follow these space requirements.
 
Building Program
General Spaces:-
Covered Drop Area for Cars-Calculate accordingly
Entrance Hall/Reception Area
Main Reception Area
Open Hall for 64 Persons (multi-purpose)
-Includes a double height room, with a medium span structure of your design.
-Must accommodate at least one sports venue
-Workshops
-Changing Rooms
-Storage area for Hall 
-Backstage area as applicable.
6 Activity Rooms (Program as per planned by your Concept & Issues)-capacity for 10-20 people.

Offices & Management:-
Director for the Community Center
Secretary for Director
Deputy Director
Accounts Officer
3 General Staff
Office Receptionist
Office Storage Room

Restaurant for 32 people:-
Kitchen
Service Area.
Dish Washing Area
Cooking Area
Beverages Area
Front Counter
Store-Wet & Dry
Dining (Internal)
Dining (External)

Building Services:-
Loading & Unloading Area
Storage Area- Events & Props-Relate to Hall
Storage Area- Management-Relate to Offices
Fire Staircase as applicable to design.-Relate to Building by Law Requirements
Toilets for Male, Female & Disable for all floors.
Water Risers where applicable.
Water Storage Room
Pump Room
Electrical Room
Control Room
Security Room
Rooms for Housekeeping & Building Management Works

Technical Requirements

Students must develop sensible architectonic in their design, applicable by the details and putting things together. As-per demonstrated by Sir Norman Foster’s University Petronas, good architecture is in Details. This is your technical requirement. The design of all the technical connections to your design is highly recommended (it will effect your marks) Nonetheless, all drawings must contain the following (graphics where applicable):-
 
Plan:
Grids X, Y and Z.
Space Identification in Plans (by numbers and tables)
Shadow Casting in Plans & Roof Plan
Plans must show floor designs.
Context included :-(roof to roof-ground to ground)
Basic anotations if  applicable

Sections & Elevations:
Grids X and Y
Space Identification in Sections (by number and tables)
Sections (1: 100) must be detail to construction drawings standard.
Elevations (1:100) must Shadow Casting-connection details
Sections (1:100) must show Shadow Casting-connection details
NO blank elevation, draw your elevation in detail to your design.
Thick Building Baseline

Detail Section:
Grids X and Y
Sensible Technical Annotations
Section Detail must be the construction standards
Thick Building Baseline.

Sectional Perspectives:
Grids X and Y
Space Identification (by number and tables)
Shadow Casting
Construction Details
Thick Building Baseline.

Interior Perspectives
Must be technically drawn, no-free hand.
Contains technical details that makes the design of the interior 

Exterior Perspectives
Must be technically drawn, no-free hand.
Contains technical details that makes the design of the overall exterior

Roof Axonometric
Blow-up, includes technical details, and connections that makes the design ‘special’.

A table of space area in Meter-Square & Feet-Square is compulsory, with NETT and GROSS area calculation.

Drawing Requirements

The drawing requirements are the marking point to whether you have finished the project or will not be entertain to presentation. Remind yourself that a complete drawing in substance contains all the following technical requirements together with the number of drawings ask. You must DRAW right & correct, do justices to section, plan and elevation line-weight, not forgetting the correctness of your drawing. Graphic is compulsory, but must be sensible. It is your drawings & design that makes the whole presentation, not an irrelevant background or swarms of fonts. These are your drawing requirements:-

Conceptual Diagrams / Space Relationship Diagrams – Refer Handouts by Morphosis
Key Plan / Location Plan
Site Plan (with context) 1: 500

Plans (1:100) –Ground Plan must include CONTEXT
Roof Plan (1:100)

Section A (1:100)
Section B (1:100)
Longitunal Section (1:100)

Front Elevation (1:100)
Back Elevation (1: 100)

Details (1: 50/1:25)
Sectional Perspective-2 Point(1: 50)
Street Elevation Perspective-1 Point(1:100)

External Perspective (Scale where appropriate)
Internal Perspectives (Scale where appropriate)

Model 1:100

Project Recaps

Remind yourselves our third project is the accumulation of all the three projects before this. You are required to design a small medium span structure, equal to its complexity to the Bamboo Project. The medium span structure is not necessary Bamboo, but of a materiality to your concept and design. It must be buildable with technical requirement and drawing detail to a construction drawing.

Your second, project should support your design approaches, according to your chosen architect. The precedence studies should influence your design process & methodologies. 

Of Metric Handbook & Time Savers

It is compulsory for you to refer the metric handbook and building timesavers at all time, especially when making layout plan. We will, during crit sessions ask students of the sensible layouts and space planning, up to the detail of how furniture and circulation works in your design.
 
Conclusion

Above all the overall assessment for the projects shall be based upon your ability to MAKE the final design logically. Problem Based Learning revolves around your creative and innovative methods, skills not forgetting intelligence when given a specific task or accomplishing it. We will look at the many generic skills and techniques that you have developed and acquired. We will also be looking towards your character

The father of all Philosopher Plato stated ‘Education is merely not the task of attaining knowledge, for it is the duty to ask a student what he/she had understand. Understand, logic and opinions derived from knowledge is in its high status the form of limitless knowledge’.

Good Luck!   
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: lyceum on February 21, 2007, 08:43:46 PM
Haha! A very thorough brief, especially in terms of drawing requirements.   I've also noticed that I have to "spell out" word for word, bit by bit to my students in order for them to produce what is necessary. Quite sad actually, but i suppose it is necessary at the beginning.

It would be good if a student can actually come up to you and say "these are the drawings I want (or need) to do, in order to best describe my design and presentation".

Sometimes, depending on one's design, regular sections and elevations may not be the best drawings to portray the design intention.

If I may, Yuri, I'd like to advice your students to also come up with additional sketches, drawings, diagram where necessary & appropriate to further elaborate what their design scheme is about.  And for goodness sake, always refer to the Metric Handbook or Time Saver's guide for determining minimum dimensions for amenities like washrooms, (including no. of fittings), corridors, staircases, etc.!!  Make those books your constant companions!!!!


One more thing: Never restraint yourself when designing because of construction reasons.

I've come across many students who are afraid to explore or push their design because they don't know how to construct their design.  Remember, you guys are still very young and fresh, you DO NOT know enough of construction to know what is possible or not. So, don't hold yourself back, go ahead and draw up exactly what you have in mind first. Then you go and ask your lecturers (or even post your queries here) how to make that design buildable or to make the construction work.  That's one of the most effective way to learn about construction - when you relate back in your design and you make use of the information, konowledge you learn.

From my experience, anything can be made to work, or at very least, as close as possible to your original intention. So, don't hold yourself back.

But... be smart about it: if you're about to attempt something different or unknown to you, do your initial scheme fast and discuss it early with your lecturers so you can develop it further. Your final product has to be buildable, so you have to get all your input from your lecturers earlier on, and not on the day of your final presentation!!!
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Awan_Larat on February 21, 2007, 09:16:00 PM

Quote
if I may, Yuri, I'd like to advice your students to also come up with additional sketches, drawings, diagram where necessary & appropriate to further elaborate what their design scheme is about.  And for goodness sake, always refer to the Metric Handbook or Time Saver's guide for determining minimum dimensions for amenities like washrooms, (including no. of fittings), corridors, staircases, etc.!!  Make those books your constant companions!!!!

Shot! i forgot about that. I am making amendments after going through it with PM-and he too, asked me to 'BOLD' the importance of using 'Metric Handbook'. I will.
 
I was told in Architecture Education, the Design Brief for the Lower Years must be very detail, up to the point where the actual space are is given. But i've always welcome rule-breakers.   
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: lyceum on February 21, 2007, 09:23:37 PM
True, you have to be in detailed in that manner in the lower years....... and you also have to make them aware why that kind of detail is necessary: as they would have to produce similar requirements/ briefs on their own later as they progress. 

Everything that the students are asked to do, has its reasons and objectives. If you can, always make them aware of what those objectives are, so they won't do things blindly (as most are apt to) and it'll help them later once the "spoonfeeding" stops.
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Awan_Larat on February 21, 2007, 09:29:04 PM

That, they have to refer the design booklet, objectives and learning outcomes. It already had been given in the first week of the semester, its a must.(learned that from Curtin) 
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Awan_Larat on February 21, 2007, 09:51:29 PM

The Brief is now Official, Good Luck!
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: lyceum on February 25, 2007, 01:17:53 AM
haha! okay what....but i don't think most people or authorities would agree to it!...duh!

You got that many players to fill up one community centre meh?

What activities is the centre supposed to cater for? Anything new or interesting?
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: azarimy on February 25, 2007, 01:19:13 AM
yes it does sound lame.

unless u're gonna opt to make "main nombor ekor" as a cool thing...

IF u wanna do that, try and look for ladbrokes or other gambling/gamehouses in england. they really have some cozy hangout places with ALOT of TV screens. u can bet just about anything, from football to race horses to who would win the next election. now that's hardcore.

main nombor ekor? aiyaahh... small fish only!
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: lyceum on February 25, 2007, 01:54:35 AM
can anybody post the site plan here?
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: sonatta on February 26, 2007, 09:04:23 PM
gambar site
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: sonatta on February 26, 2007, 09:06:57 PM
lagi
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: sonatta on February 26, 2007, 09:08:17 PM
n lagi
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: sonatta on February 26, 2007, 09:08:47 PM
komtarrr
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Yuki_Onna on March 01, 2007, 04:44:55 AM
nanti kena marah dgn yuri -- "x habis2 dgn komtar"
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Awan_Larat on April 02, 2007, 07:23:10 PM
A lot of you had been asking me 'how does an Architectural Presentation Drawing looks like?'. Check these, from Morphosis.
 
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Awan_Larat on April 02, 2007, 07:33:41 PM

A good presentation drawing contains all the information as per detailed in your LEARNING OUTCOMES. If all substance are tally to the LO, your Presentation Drawing is good-well at least for the first impression, design is 'skin deep'. 
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Awan_Larat on April 02, 2007, 07:37:22 PM
I have experience looking at drawings that is beautiful but had no meaning. Uncover the colors, pictures & fonts-what you have is a bad design. You can fail.

Remember, remember, remember...


You must DRAW right & correct, do justices to section, plan and elevation line-weight, not forgetting the correctness of your drawing. Graphic is compulsory, but must be sensible. It is your drawings & design that makes the whole presentation, not an irrelevant background or swarms of fonts.


So, Good Luck!!!!

Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: azarimy on April 03, 2007, 02:52:46 AM
u should also tell them what each drawing represents.

take for example one of the images that u've put up. go into detail on each drawing/object presented on that particular piece of paper. it's proven that both student and experts look at the same drawing, but pickup different things (thomas dutton 1991). we might show them a good composition and clarity, but the student picks up the graphical horizontal bar at the bottom of the drawing, as well as the minute text that forms part of the description, but barely readable from 2 feet away.

each image selected must have a reason of why it needs to be there. if told "u must put as much information in there" will lead the students to put whatever junk they managed to cut and paste from the internet.

when u put a section, u must put it there for a reason, not bcoz the brief says so. a section shows the interior of the building in relations with its context, volume, space usage and vertical distribution. some students just put up a blank section that defeats the entire purpose of putting up a section at all.

Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Awan_Larat on April 16, 2007, 11:46:40 PM

Attention Kids...
This your marking scheme...
 
Clarity of Idea & Concept
Student understanding & research?
Conceptual analysis, studies to site context.
Student approach to design and precedent studies.
Is the concept imperative, clearly articulate and communicate?-25

Appropriateness to Design
Space planning & layout represent continuation to idea/concept?
Technical considerations, structural proposals & built design.
Architectonic means.
Technical details & appropriateness.
Process documentation-prototyping, drawing, working models, sketches?-40

Architectonic Richness
Does the design withstand closer scrutiny, possess layers of meaning?
Does the technical makings contribute richness to design.
How the building does contribute its existence to the context?-25

Presentation             
Verbal clarity & articulation
Aesthetic levels of care/model craft & drawings-10

Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Awan_Larat on May 04, 2007, 09:26:38 PM
Hey, manage to get some digital submission, since Tanggam folks love 3D & graphic...enjoy & feel free to say anything. So.. inilah kerja-kerja bebudak tuh. Community Center. aku akan letak semua, the good & the bad.

3D mamat nih ingatkan aku kat si Jim7 buat dulu. hehehe.  ;)6
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Awan_Larat on May 04, 2007, 09:33:24 PM
Photo-montage-morphosis style.
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: segumpal_tanah on May 04, 2007, 10:19:20 PM
Bukan montage je style Morphosis, design pun nak same daa... Reminds me of Diamond Ranch School (or was it Diamondback? Lupa ah!) in the States with a tint of Sun Tower in Seoul. Nice presentation anyway....much better than what I could manage back then.

So what's your verdict of this one Yuri?
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Awan_Larat on May 04, 2007, 10:26:17 PM
Shhh...cannot tell le Tanah,.. He is an unoficial protege of Thom Maine-suka betul kat Morphosis, hahaha :lol:...OK la, bagi aku, agak payah nak faham substance Morphosis dan design, in essence parallel tapi tetap kepunyaan dia sendiri.   
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Awan_Larat on May 04, 2007, 11:00:06 PM

This is another 3D attempt of visualizing the building on site. Siap dengan interior. Diorang nih..cuba le pakai angle lain. nih semua guna sama je..hehehe..
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Awan_Larat on May 04, 2007, 11:07:07 PM

Cuma a few students sahaja yang buat 3D Max. I suppose nanti next Sem akan compulsory semuat KENA buat 3D renderings. 
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: segumpal_tanah on May 04, 2007, 11:29:20 PM
Mak aih... gile maju bebudak sekarang! I don't know about the design, but the renderings are damn good!

Gone are the days of pen-coloured perspectives on Zhi Sien/Rainbow printed presentation sheets!
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Awan_Larat on May 04, 2007, 11:53:51 PM
Whoa, hold your horses!!!, this is only, 3D renderings, not Design. Aku anggap benda2 nih sebagai suplementary SAHAJA. Bukan core-value. Still, i love the pen-colored perspectives on Zhi Shen Presentation Sheets. Strong foundation and subtance, dari pencil ke pen ke mouse. Small steps...

You can only do your 3D renderings once your design is SOLID, SENSIBLE & STRONG in its Architectonic sense. Kalau tidak ada le section, plan yang macam pakai GAM je untuk construction Utterly useless design. 

Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: namiaz on May 05, 2007, 05:06:19 AM
SOLID, SENSIBLE & STRONG ????

Not being nosy, but if i remember, one of my studio mates did a thesis on this site 3 years ago (USM), at the same site all the way to the wet market. I walked her from the Jetty to KOMTAR just to understand the urban context. Did you? Tell me... is that the best you could derive as a product (base on the 3d)? In my humble opinion, I think the heritage council of penang would throw their guidlines at ur head before u could even propose it if they see all this. U've just tampered on one of Penangs most important heritage trails... tsk tsk tsk. dahla urban... adoi... blom lagi nak ckp pasal product, niat pon dah bertrabor!!
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: segumpal_tanah on May 05, 2007, 05:42:07 AM
Quote
Not being nosy, but if i remember, one of my studio mates did a thesis on this site 3 years ago (USM), at the same site all the way to the wet market. I walked her from the Jetty to KOMTAR just to understand the urban context. Did you? Tell me... is that the best you could derive as a product (base on the 3d)

I believe you've just answered your own question there, bro.... I mean the examples above are of a diploma level (2nd/3rd year) which is a couple of steps below final year thesis level. Needless to say that the requirements would be different. But I do agree with your urban concerns though.
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Awan_Larat on May 06, 2007, 12:31:02 AM
SOLID, SENSIBLE & STRONG ????

Not being nosy, but if i remember, one of my studio mates did a thesis on this site 3 years ago (USM), at the same site all the way to the wet market. I walked her from the Jetty to KOMTAR just to understand the urban context. Did you? Tell me... is that the best you could derive as a product (base on the 3d)?

Hrmm, interesting Namiaz..You would say that the design above is not good? Considering these kids are only second-year/second sem(straight from SPM)-to deal with a site that bears much complexity is over-whelming. Wow i thought i was mean..hehehe. Don't be too single minded, kalau Pompidue Center adalah contoh terbaik? Why so uptight about this particular approach?

Quote
In my humble opinion, I think the heritage council of penang would throw their guidlines at ur head before uU've just tampered on one of Penangs most important heritage trails... tsk tsk tsk. dahla urban... adoi... blom lagi nak ckp pasal product, niat pon dah bertrabor!! could even propose it if they see all this.

It matters to me if you could explain more in detail what you meant to the bold letters i highlight. Please do?
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: namiaz on May 06, 2007, 03:24:43 AM
There are two types of students, those who grab what they can find, those who wait for it in a platter... lets just say this will be amongst many catalyst that would push u to proceed to part 2 of ur program, and ultimately will help u decide what thesis subject u intend to pursue. Was that so hard to assume segumpul_tanah?

heres a hint, go to the Heritage Council of Jln. McCalister (A branch of MPPP). Its located near KOMTAR behind the tokong cima, u wont miss it from Penang Bridge. They have specific requiremants and manuals u can adhere to if your're interested in uping the ante. They may not throw it at you, but if you do want to create a good project, try be a little more concerned about its backgrounds, surroundings and requiremants, the challenging part is having what you want whilst preserving the rules. No harm pushing yourself with a little challenge. You learn more is all tht matters.

OOOOOOooooOOoO.... Straight from SPM.... I was being a little enthusiastic. If you're interested in testing your metal, or understanding this branch of architecture which I think is a good oppurtunity, then I suggest you start with this project with a little more enthusiasm as my post was earlier. Its a good experience and you'll learn the dramas behind a UNESCO acknowledge site. Mana tau one day you're working in Penang and u guys will speacialize in conservation or infills. Dont talk about Pompidou like it was located next door... (I'm not surprised one bit this was brought up) be a little more realistic, differant places differant criterias, differant councils. I assume there was a reason for a site visit. Its one thing being single minded, its worst when its shallow right AWAN_LARAT
"Student approach to design and precedent studies. Is the concept imperative, clearly articulate and communicate?".

Lets just say your post of the brief got me a little excited, and dismayed with where its was all heading. Put aside thesis and all... this is valuable knowledge peeps... its not everyday ure gonna get this oppurtunity to work on a famous heritage site. Thats all im trying to say. Wish u guys could come back, n ill show u what u should be looking at ;-)

If it helps, take it from a guy whose been working with various urban projects in Penang and a few of them heritage.

PS: If anyones close to VERITAS... try get in touch with Eric Tham, or visit their office, in Penang, they did a really good proposal for the Weld Quay Harbour walk. Hint: Dont judge a book by its cover... ;-) (Its not swettenham Pier nor the church st. Pier, its in between) BTW If he asks you whether u have a tattoo dont answer or say no, coz it an invitation by him to show his tattoos. We dont need people taking of their shirts n pants. hahahahh

Currently ERA3, previously Akitek Rekabina Penang, has a proposal which they worked with my friend who was doing her thesis. Of course bende ni dah 3 tahun lepas and I dont know whose pulling strings at the momment, but maybe you should visit them for a little background n their findings of tht site. Ask for Ar. Zulkarnain.
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: namiaz on May 06, 2007, 03:25:37 AM
owh one more if u need photos, i can post em here. I think I got a few from my recent trails... just tell me where n what
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Yuki_Onna on May 06, 2007, 06:20:33 AM
we did have a seminar by PM bashri the third week into our project. i stil have my notes.... seems there are MANY ways to design in a heritage site... He did offer a few suggestions and guidline.
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Awan_Larat on May 06, 2007, 08:25:32 PM
This site is very personal to you huh Namaiz? Hehehehe.....Hence the critical criticism on the designs, which i welcome very much. 

I think you should give the students the benefit of doubt to their concepts and ideas, for it is my mistake to put the pictures (graphic) without the proper plan and idea. If you are able to listen or follow more-over analyze their approach to design, concept..maybe you would see that they did adhere problems and sensitivity to Kapitan Kling.

Quote
"Student approach to design and precedent studies. Is the concept imperative, clearly articulate and communicate?".

And yes, those designs by the 3D's that i post does bear good sensible approach from substance to skin. There are MANY ways of designing in a heritage site.   

We are aware of the critical sensitiveness of the site, so does the Heritage Council guidelines and approach which the students 'xerox' at the Heritage Council's Office right behind Syed Al-Attas Mansion. They did also spend 3 Days investigating the site, town trails & urban studies. Likewise by rules of Majlis Agama Islam Penang, that site is a 'KUBUR' . hehehe...But i have to remind you, this is an exercise and they don't learn URBAN DESIGN yet. They are not '4th year'. Hehehe...

Nonetheless, thank you-if you could input them earlier that would be swell. Project pun dah tamat...

 
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: nyonya_tan on May 07, 2007, 01:36:47 AM
Well still after the project dah tamat pun I think Namiaz's points are valid, even though maybe it was just based on the 3d images that Awan had posted earlier on and not a thorough understanding of the basis behind the projects themselves (which was understandable sebab it wasn't included).

I'd suggest that the students read his comments and learn from them, even after the project dah tamat.

Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: namiaz on May 07, 2007, 02:19:36 AM
OOOO  dah tamat rupanya...  :pening: i thought br start.  <_< owh well. I guess its these times we usually term as "close the books" (hope not) ... hmmm...  :hmm: i was just about to tell u that i baru teringat that the consultant who advised and composed the guidlines was Ar. Zalina from ZAA Arkiteks. her office is just across the road from the site... her husband who was my sifu during 2nd year took me there and we did the same thing. Bonceng moto Kriss dgn seorang Ar.  :thumbs: n all I could think of at that time was "thank God this guy knows of deodarants" (during my practicle I was assigned to design the Bishop Street Wanita UMNO building, a week before i ended my practicle. it was Conservation in a sense and at the same time refurbishment, only I did the first final draft and managed one presentation with the clients, a great experience, before I had to return to the university, someone took over after I left and in the papers last month, its going through a lawsuit also related to heritage issues. Wow, after 7 years, what we do today echoes in eternity, i just thought to myself "thank god it wasnt me who proposed that hideos mullion"  ^^`).... hahaha the irony of it all. Well good luck to those who completed the project.  :notworthy:

PS: sorry i got carried away with the smileys, they were fun to play with
Title: Re: project 3...community center
Post by: Yuki_Onna on May 07, 2007, 06:06:50 PM
 :notworthy: thank you namiaz... i'd keep your advice at heart till i can use it in the later years. tho i can't say i understand yet. i'll just keep chewing and try to digest it as time goes on and as i journey on.

Hehe!!! i think that smiles are fun too!!  :P :mellow: :huh: :rolleyes: :thumbs: :blush: :censored: